Saturday, February 02, 2008
I do so love having a Blog....
Apparently I've been touching a few chords with people who have found my rants via search engines and have stopped long enough to read and add comments. Most of my comments are from The Discourser or the SuperGoober as they are friends and live back in California and it's our way of keeping in touch. The first one was when I talked about Algood and Cookeville and how crappy the towns are. Some Hillbilly Redneck (from his lack of grammar and punctuation plus atrocious spelling you could tell he was) proves my point about the average person that lives there by going into a rant about he knew who I was.....and he was going to pray for me because I was a coke head and a meth head and how's my girlfriend recovering from being beat up by me.......made me laugh.....it also pissed off my oldest Step-Daughter who left a scathing comeback to Hillbilly boy herself. I've had positive comments, like the guy from France who agreed that some of the books I listed that should be made into movies should be made into movies. I like Feedburner by the way....it tells me where people are searching me from. There was the Canadian who got mad at me because I said American Idol sucked.....when I replied to that person we actually had a civil debate back and forth via comments. Then Mike C found my rant about Airsoft Whiners, didn't know who it was at first but thought my points were valid...so did Chuck of OPForce. Of course I just recently had a comment on that same post from some guy who still doesn't get it.......I will say it again....There should be a limit of the speed which a bb is shot through an airsoft gun.....the higher you get, the more chance of serious injury or disability you run into. Period. When you have a local Airsoft store constantly pushing the envelope in just how high powered you can get a gun to shoot, you run the risk of those little plastic bb's reaching the same velocity of a real firearm. At that point you've just committed a felony and someone will acutally get one of those little plastic bb's embbed in their skin and our penetrate the flesh and someone may die. How much plainer could it be? But I digress....my most recent comment was from someone named Bitch.......who's probably some teenage bimbo with half a brain. She's obviously from Boston as she commented in true Internet Tough Guy fashion "You are an idiot". Oh, it was all in CAPS too. I commented on how stupid the leaders of the City of Boston where for implementing a full scale SWAT team and emergency shutdown of their City over a neon sign.....you know the story I won't go into it.
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Me again. Regarding a previous post about a 612fps rifle, and I quote "something that almost has the same kick as a .22", I was wondering where you are coming up with these off the wall "facts". At 612fps a .22 round would be 100 times more powerful than a .2g bb. Therefore the individual who was supposedly (supposedly: assumed as true, regardless of fact; hypothetical; accepted or believed as true, without positive knowledge; merely thought to be such; see also: imagined)shot "point blank in the back of the neck" would have made the local and even possibly the national news. And yet I never heard about it before your blog. Perhaps I just don't understand the FEAR people like you have. Who knows? Maybe someone will die from a tiny plastic sphere and then we can all go back to playing paintball, because giant dark bruises that last for weeks is much safer than tiny welts that last for hours.
The information on the incident came from Nashville Airsofts own forums where several players were calling the person a wuss because he got all pissed off about it. So there is no "supposedly" it happened. What am I afraid of? Legislatures with an axe to grind...assholes that make the laws looking for an excuse to ban all fun. What you need to look at is every single field in this Country has FPS limits around 400-430; and that's for a reason. Higher FPS' for Snipers come with a range restriction of anywhere from 150-200 feet. Chuck has spoke to Johnathan about it, Mike C has, a lot of people have. He doesn't care; that's fine, but as someone who provides the equipment that is used in our sport he has a responsibility, whether he likes it or not or feels he does or not, to make sure the sport is safe and doesn't get banned. Bruises don't kill...bb's penetrating skin just might...plastic or not. It's nothing against Johnathan, he's a good guy, but he doesn't get it, and you don't either. Am I wrong or right? Are you wrong or right? Who knows. You say it's a challenge to play against high powered guns? How is that? What's the challenge when you can stand in the parking lot and hit someone in Switzerland? What's the challenge of shooting someone from so short a range that they buckle over in pain and have to sit the next one out? Do you like hurting people? That's what an M249 that shoots 625 does. Hurts people....more than a regular AEG because it has a higher rate of fire than say an M4. Where did I get that from? It exists...Johnathan has boasted about and regularly tells everyone about it. We aren't going to agree, because you don't see the bigger issue with it. Until you realize that guys that encourage upgrading a gun to insane limits have potential to be sued (even with a waiver some good ambulance chaser will find a way around it). I'd hate for Johnathan to lose his lively hood, and I'd hate for that lawsuit to come back to bite Mike in the ass and then we don't have a field to play on...or a sport to play...anymore. That's what I'm afraid of....but hey it's all nothing but FEAR....I'm just running around crying wolf I guess.....me and about 1,000 or so airsoft players in this Country.
Actually, this is not a new discussion, but an ongoing one in several communities. For example, lots of good (and bad) points have been made and discussed here:
http://www.tnairsoft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5554&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Thanks Clinkman....
"The information on the incident came from Nashville Airsofts own forums where several players were calling the person a wuss because he got all pissed off about it. So there is no "supposedly" it happened" Could you please post a link to this post? I would like to see it with my own two eyes.
I believe he was referring to this incident...
http://www.nashvilleairsoft.com/NAforum/viewtopic.php?t=56&start=15
No one is saying you can not play how you like, only that it is dangerous and at best irresponsible to the airsoft community as a whole because of increased potential for serious injury at higher limits (or no limits) that could bring unwanted media attention or worse yet legislation that could potentially greatly restrict the sport, period. We just believe there is more at stake here, that's all.
Ah, it cut of the entire url of the post in my last comment...won't let me post the whole link. Anyway, it was in the NA Forums, under "Official NA Gammes" and in a topic labeled "1/14/07 Game Day" or something to that effect and near the bottom of page 2 of the topic. The poster was someone going by the name of "airsoft sam" I believe.
Clinkman has it right....it was airsoft Sam saying how some "old" guy in his 40's was going off because he got shot at point blank range in the back of the neck with a 600-612 gun....and he called the guy a wuss.....now that it isn't Hearsay anymore nor is it "supposedly" anymore are you going to go back to Filaairsoft and tell them that it wasn't hearsay Vicious???
"airsoft sam
Staff Sergeant
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 124
Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:16 pm Post subject: tournament stuff
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as for the guy who was the pig gettin butchered, that was my friends dad, he needs to grow up and not take such a big deal when someone shoots him point blank witha gun shootin around 600fps on the neck, hes like 40 years old he has been through much worse i bet, other than people not callin when they were shot it was really fun, i would like to see more pics posted on a part of the home page or posted on the forums. anyways great game
"
Here's the direct quote from the thread Vicious....not sure who told you it didn't happen, but Airsoft Sam was there and actually being very disrespectful to his friends Dad....that's where I got my info from.....so it's your turn...who of your Spartan Teammates told you it didn't happen? This guy like you suggested didn't make the local news, and Johnathan is lucky he didn't sue (waiver or not). I noticed your posts over on Filaairsoft and I noticed all of the Filipino and Chinese dudes telling you that even over there they have FPS limits. Like Clinkman said, do what you want, but think about the potential consequences of your actions....at least listen to what I've said and what Clinkman has said...and others. We've taken the time to listen to you....and you seem to have set out to prove me a liar...with a vengence...going so far as to link my blog to international airsofters to validate your take on things....I'm impressed my opinion seems to matter so much to you. Now only if you'd actually try and understand what we are saying and not just pshaw it you will get it.
Your blog titled "Airsoft Whiners" made a comment about NA and No FPS games. You also implied that NA and the Spartans were calling this guy a wuss for complaining. The latest link shows that neither NA or any single one of the Spartans were acting unsportsman like. As for the link to Filairsoft, I was mostly interested in the 612fps to .22 "fact" you were throwing around. As for changing my normal forum name to Operator615, it was because I wasn't speaking for Na or any other Spartans, and I didn't want to disrespect anyone or cause hard feelings if they didn't agree. This was an issue I was pursuing myself. You can have your opinions, it just seems wrong the way you attack others without pursuing all of the facts. Have you tried talking to Jonathan about any of this? I have no hard feelings about any of this, and I hope you don't either. I do however think discussing our views is healthy.
Operator,
I have discussed the FPS issue with Jon on several occasions, we have agreed to disagree I suppose. We are friends, I have supported the store from the beginning and continue to. We just don't support No FPS games because of the safety and possible repercussions of serious injury to the airsoft community as a whole. Doesn't mean I or others don't like or have anything against the Spartans or NA personally. I've played with and against you guys on numerous occasions, and would always rather have you guys on my side than against. No hard feelings here, it is as you said very good to be able to rationally discuss our views/opinions. I can "agree to disagree" with someone, still be friends, and respect their right to their opinion. Steve here on his blog is doing just that, expressing his opinion. Hopefully it encourages constructive discussion and understanding...we are all passionate about some things and need a place to vent/express ourselves.
Wasn't implying anyone specifically...I believe I said "these guys" some of the players at the NA game. Yes like Chuck said we've all talked to Johnathan about this at various times in the past. I've never once said "don't shop at NA"...Johnathan is a dick...no, he's actually a decent guy....we had a lot of fun at Irene and it's always fun taking him on in a game and shooting along side. I will admit I do have some issues with a couple of your teammates...but that's a couple of them not all. My issue with all of this is you claimed this never happened...where as we all know it did. You said there are safety distances in your post on Fila....from what Johnathan has told me it's left up to common sense really. There's nothing posted...you claim that "this wouldn't happen" but it did. Unless you state a certain engagement distance, there is no way to guarantee someone is not going to get shot at close range. I've been told by the gentlemen running a certain field back home that yeah he lets folks use higher fps' but the higher the fps, the higher the engagement distance. You break that rule, he kicks you out. You say I'm attacking...but I'm not. I, as do others, believe that someone who is a retailer of airsoft equipment is a gateway to the sport and therefore has more responsibility to make sure we can keep playing that sport. I know Johnathan doesn't tell people to be unsafe...I'm sure he does quite the opposite and stresses safety. Does he stress that his games are what is considered "extreme" in the airsoft world if people ask? He honestly should up his age limit to 18 and over that way it's adults only who have no one to blame but themselves if they get injured (15 year old kids will lie to their parents to get them to sign waivers and to get them to go to a game.....). I'm not attacking him, I worry for the guy. That store is his livelyhood and I'd hate to see him get the crap sued out of him by some whiny kid's folks who would claim "my son was duped into believing it was safe" when we know that's not true. I have pursued the facts....it's my understanding a .22 pistol shoots at 1200 fps or something like that...so at 600+ an airsoft gun is half that power and at point blank range I bet it sure feels like being shot with a small caliber pistol.....no hard feelings dude. Honestly all the things I've said have been said to Johnathan already. In his eyes we are worrying for nothing, in our eyes he should be more responsible......it's opinions.
Steve, the whole .22 pistol thing, give me a break. You really don't know what you're talking about. It's not like a small caliber bullet at all. We did a test in here one time (on a friend,and it was his idea) with a sniper that shot 690fps. He asked to be shot in the back, just wearing a t-shirt, from 20ft away. It did break the skin, but i've seen much worse in paintball. Hardly what a .22 would do. Also, you did call us "Idiots" and "Schmucks". That's not very nice.
Sorry, don't mean to be mean. But when me, my cousin, or my business are insulted like this I have to say something. No more of my time will be wasted reading trash like this.
You guys are fixating on this whole .22 thing......I said "felt like..." as in I bet that's what it would feel like to actually get shot with a .22....ie hurting like hell....... as for the idiots and schmucks comments...hey it was a year ago and you guys pissed me off on the field....I'm sure you've said your share of not nice things about Bad Karma and others too. How did you piss me off...not you in particular Josh, but others of your team who have been caught cheating and knowingly breaking rules. Not all of your team....but a few. Did I insult your business? Really? If you feel that way I will just stop referring people to your store then. Hell I will stop buying things from your store as well. This is my personal space, I say what I want. It's my opinion....there is a warning on the front page but no one seems to read it......me telling you that you should be more responsible as a retailer of airsoft gear is insulting?? How is that an insult when it's true. You should be more responsible. Do you really want to lose your business because someone got the next Johnny Cochraine as a lawyer and had Senators and Assemblymen on their side? Is that an insult then? They'd point the finger at you and say "it's their fault". Be insulted if you like....I was just venting because you guys don't seem to see the potential loss of our sport by your actions. But hey, that's fine....like Chuck says to Johnathan..."agree to disagree"....... Again...the .22 thing...whatever guys....take my statement out of complete context and you get so damn defensive over it. Anything over 420 fucking hurts at point blank to the back of the neck..period. Hell 350 to the back of the neck hurts just as much. So if you know so much...how fast does a .22 travel? Does it really matter....read the whole damn thing just don't skim it for the parts that you want to see.
This is Tim Taormina, I have been in the Nashville Airsoft community for well over a year and have been to almost every single game in the 2007 season. I was witness to this incident that happened at a NA game in which a Middle Aged man complained about being shot with a 600+fps gun in the face. This is an outright lie because I was standing less than 15feet behind him at the time. He blindfired himself around the corner and when he looked to complain that the guy didnt call himself out, someone shot him in the face. That gun was no where near 600 or even close. I have seen so many worse wounds resulting from airsoft that its not even funny. If some of you recall I had my nose broken open while assulting the VC compound during a Silent Ops game. But guess what guys, that gun was only shooting 400fps, Within BK field limts. What a surprise. It has nothing to do with FPS limits when it comes to safety. The BK field imposes a rulling that there is no engagement limits, this may have changed but I remember clearly this was in effect during the 07 season. This is FAR more dangerous than a no FPS limit. A 310fps gun, of which most stock guns shoot nowadays, is just as dangerous from "point blank" as all these reports say people are getting hit from nowadays, as a 600fps gun. Sure it sounds crazy, but the Joules of impact are not that big in difference. And as far as a .22 rifle compared to a 600fps gun. A .22 gun shoots near 1200 joules, 600fps 135-150 joules. This is the scientific measurement of impact. Obviously there is a major difference here.
And just to make a statement. Coming from a larger and more populated airsoft commmunity of the North/Midwest, Nashville Airsoft has done more to promote the Airsoft community as a whole than any invididual or organization I have seen thusfar.
If you wish to ask me any questions or rebuke me please send an email to Taor0003@metnet.edu and I will be happy to respond.
Thanks Tim. See if someone had just come forward and said..."no man that guys a lying sack" then there'd be no arguement. I just kept hearing "it didn't happen because everyone said it did." Like I said I responded to something I read. Thanks for clearing it up. I've had a similar report as well that the dude was talking shit.
There are no engagement distances still for NA, BK or other games...with the exception of I believe Snipers and SAWS. I agree...no engagement distance is dangerous.....I know everyone's opinion is that "people know better"....but really they in fact don't. We know this.
My biggest grief is coming from 3rd person accounts. Like I said, from what Ive read here I was one of the few debating who was actually present for said incident. I understand your personal disagreements with how NA runs their games, of which there have been few and far between recently, and you are completely entitled to your own opinion, as is anyone who comments as such. It just bothers me when some one who go as far as discrediting an establishment in which the owners livelihoods depended on their reputation for being knowledgeable about airsoft. , when said person has not personally attend the games. I'm not trying to talk you down or anything, Im just questioning your sense of authority on how "dangerous" these games are run. But, like I said, its your blog= your opinion, and if you want to say that you can, I would just be quick to rebuke any of those claims. Regardless of my current affiliation with NA, I have seen them as not only a leader of this area, but the country. This being said after being in several airsoft communities, and I would of recommenced them well before I was with the Spartans. And again, your opinions of our team aside, there are many members of the Order in which have had their claims questioned over calling hits or not, its all part of the game and sometimes peoples emotions get in the way of honesty and logic. All in all, Ive heard the same amount of complaining and grief from Bad Karma games, M.A.S.H. games...even ones back home in Minnesota. There will be complaining about peoples "dangerous" actions no matter how many rules and safety measures are put into place. Also a correction on my math regarding the .22 relation to the .20gram bb flying at 600fps. A .22cal hits with 1009 joules and the .20gram bb at 600fps moves at 3.84joules. This means that the .20gram bb would have to be moving at over mach 10 to equal the amount of joules a .22cal rifle hits with. And point taken with ones perception of how hard a gun is shooting, but we could easily test taking two guns, one shooting 280fps and one shooting 500+fps at the same distance and hit someone and I'm sure that person would be hard pressed to tell the difference. But like I've stated, I have had my skin broken at least 2-5 times each game and I am a perfectly healthy adult with no signs of permanent injury.
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